Drowning in email? Try Inbox Zero to learn sane tips for dealing with high-volume email. And don’t miss the free Inbox Zero video. »
Register for free on 43 Folders to comment on articles, post to our forum, customize your visits, and much more. Current users can login now.
DHH on iPhone 2.0's Glitches
Merlin Mann | Jul 23 2008
iPhone 2.0: The glory wore off in wash - (37signals) [via DF] While acknowledging the complexity of Apple’s ambitious launch, David Heinemeier Hansson says iPhone 2.0 wasn’t ready for prime time on a number of levels.
David also has a laundry list of complaints on stability and performance. I went through his items and ticked off each of the ones I’ve also noticed (with a 01-10 for how big a problem it’s been for me):
I’ll also add a few of my own:
Hm. I hadn’t really thought about all these at once, but, yeah. That’s a big bunch of broken. Let’s hope an update is out soon that addresses some of these. 25 Comments
POSTED IN:
I’ve experienced most ofSubmitted by Chike on July 23, 2008 - 1:32pm.
I’ve experienced most of these; by far the most annoying are the absurdly long “backup” syncs and the sloooooooow text input. As for the apps mysteriously reappearing on your phone — have you deleted them from iTunes? It doesn’t strike me as very Apple-like, but in order to delete an app off the device, you have to remove it from the iPhone and also from within iTunes (under Library > Apps). Otherwise, it will just be reinstalled the next time you sync. » POSTED IN:
iTunes definitely not finished on the app syncingSubmitted by Tim on July 23, 2008 - 6:32pm.
The thing is if you remove an app from your iPhone, it will be added again when you sync it because, well, it’s on iTunes and not the iPhone, and both need to be synchronized, right? If you remove it from iTunes, it will be added back from your iPhone because, well, it’s on the iPhone and not iTunes, and both need to be synchronized, right? Which means, you have to remove it on each separately… I’m waiting for the iTunes update that has to come just for that. That and these crazy-long backup sessions that happen every time! Why?!? » POSTED IN:
You need to change the App Sync OptionSubmitted by dan90266 on July 23, 2008 - 7:11pm.
Shouldn’t you switch to the “sync selected applications” option on the iPhone’s Applications tab, so you can leave them in iTunes should you decide to re-run them? » POSTED IN:
one solution to the long backupsSubmitted by jethoman on July 24, 2008 - 8:58pm.
my ipod touch was taking about 20 mins to backup. I took off all the apps and tried to sync and it worked much faster. That is obviously not a fix, more of a work around. I added back my sudoku, vnc, and remote. Still working well. Apple will be releasing an update soon, I hope this is very un-apple like. » POSTED IN:
Contact sluggishnessSubmitted by AquaMethod on July 23, 2008 - 1:39pm.
I’ve noticed a lot of these too, but I’m surprised that the ridiculously-slow Contacts app wasn’t mentioned. Once I tap “Contacts” either on the home screen or in the phone app, it takes about ten seconds before I can do anything. I am using the MobileMe “push,” so there might be a correlation there, but…I only have around fifty contacts. iPhone 1.x Contacts.app wasn’t nearly that slow. The re-appearing apps seem to be poor design in the way the iPhone is synced: iTunes installs all of the apps that are checked under the Applications tab of the iPhone page in iTunes. If you delete an app on your phone, it’s not unchecked from iTunes on your next sync, so it’s reinstalled during that sync. But at least we can have OmniFocus in our Dock! Makes it all worth it to me. » POSTED IN:
+1 on Contact lagSubmitted by CuriousG on July 23, 2008 - 10:21pm.
I had already uploaded some apps before I noticed the new contact app. It was so sluggish I assumed it was some crappy 3rd party software and looked at deleting it. It was only when I noticed that the little x delete button didn’t show up that I figured out that it was from Apple. Now that I’m having more luck synching OmniFocus after a lot of fiddling, it definitely is worth having. It is becoming the app I dreamed of before 2.0 came out. » POSTED IN:
The most egregious problem of allSubmitted by shaug on July 23, 2008 - 1:54pm.
…that I haven’t seen discussed more widely is the phone erroneously wiping out an apps data. I don’t know what causes the problem, but it’s happening to many people. It happened to me, and it doesn’t seem to be limited to any particular app. Ken Case of OmniGroup even twittered about it: http://twitter.com/kcase/statuses/864815730 Thankfully this has only happened to me with game apps, and not with more valuable data like in OmniFocus. I had all of my game data in MotionX Poker wiped. I was playing the game, closed out of it, opened Twitterific, which resulted in a full machine crash. After rebooting, going back into MXP showed that I was basically starting the game afresh. Super annoying. It’s to the point where I’m actually afraid to use the iPhone, for fear of actually losing anything more valuable. Not good. » POSTED IN:
WhoaSubmitted by AquaMethod on July 23, 2008 - 2:03pm.
I knew that there was (and experienced) a bug with updating apps and losing data, but I hadn’t heard about straight-up data loss from just a crash. That’s pretty bad; at least you can sync OmniFocus data to back it up, but that’s still an unacceptable bug. » POSTED IN:
keyboard lagSubmitted by kirk on July 23, 2008 - 2:37pm.
I’ve noticed that turning off the keyboard clicking sound seems to speed up the keyboard. It can still be slow, but the worst lagginess is significantly reduced. » POSTED IN:
Oh, Come on Guys!Submitted by bensmith on July 23, 2008 - 4:01pm.
So, I will grant you there are some problems with the 2.0 software that Apple can solve: In there own apps. But the problems with speed, or glitchy 3rd party apps is hardly their issue. Let me backup. The iPhone/iPod Touch (the device) has 128MB of RAM. Part of this goes to the system, part of this goes to a fake virtual memory block (that’s right boys and girls there is no virtual memory on the device). All told you are looking at about 70MB to play with as a developer. This goes down if the user then tries to play music while using your app. If the device runs out of RAM, it kills the app or in some cases reboots. There is a memory warning system that tries to free up memory by deallocating objects when it is critically low, which is why you sometimes see periods of slowness or stalls. While the device is running OS X, it is NOT a desktop. But the majority of iPhone developers are desktop programmers. The majority of whom I think really understand this distinction. But some don’t. First, there is no garbage collection (and shouldn’t be - I won’t get into why) on the device. But there is on OS X. Secondly, while there is autorealease pools on both, they should be released far sooner on the device then on the desktop (actually you should try to avoid them as much as possible on the device). This is all to say that developing on a mobile device is hard and you are going to see some terrible apps along with a few good ones. None of which is Apple’s fault. This (slightly ranty comment) is not directed at the folks who originally wrote this article (because they didn’t participate in the media fiesta I’m about to describe), but I’ve seen this elsewhere on the web, mostly from the media. The same media that lost it’s mind when they found out there wouldn’t be background apps (now that you’ve read the above paragraphs, does anyone think that’s a good idea?). The same media that bashed them for not having 3rd party apps a year ago. And the same media that (I’ll admit, not as much as the first two) who had doubts about the whole App Store thing. This is what happens when people who don’t know what they are talking about become the primary commenters on a product. Macworld, Mac blogs and others like them are completely unqualified to say “boo” about an SDK (unless they are a developer), but yet their voice was so loud that (my hunch is) it effected product development. Now their complaining? This is not to say there aren’t problems in 2.0 that Apple needs to address; but if your primary problem is crashes. Blame the right people. » POSTED IN:
Re: Oh, Come on Guys!Submitted by AquaMethod on July 23, 2008 - 4:55pm.
I agree that the 128MB of RAM on the iPhone is the most limiting factor of it; that's why Safari and the iPod app don't get along very well. But isn't that why background apps aren't allowed in the first place? Apple touted this as one of the reasons for the SDK delay and one of the benefits of using the iPhone over other platforms. Users don't care about objects or autorealease pools; users care about the stability of their phone. And I think Apple does have to take some of the blame--they personally vouch for every application in the App Store, a process which is delaying updated versions of applications from reaching users. Further, a lot of very talented Cocoa developers do believe that some of the crashing and weirdness can be accredited to the iPhone 2.0 OS--but that leads to the single biggest problem with iPhone application development right now, that Effing NDA. Developers can't share code, get help, or teach others how to make a good iPhone app. Once you plunk down that $99, you're on your own. If developers are writing poor software for the iPhone, then the NDA is the reason why. And that's purely the fault of Apple. I agree that the media overstates everything, and like the sheep many of us have become, we overreact to their exaggerations. Not a good combo. And sometimes, there is just plain misinformation out there; however, in this case, Apple released a sloppy version of the OS with big promises. Is it the end of the world for the iPhone? No; it'll be one of Apple's platforms for years to come. But Apple needs to get this kind of feedback now, while the userbase is still manageable. After all, it's the real fans who are the hardest on Apple: we love our OS X/iPod/iPhone/AppleTV, and we want to see it be improved and make up for its deficiencies. » POSTED IN:
Re: Oh, Come on Guys!Submitted by bensmith on July 23, 2008 - 9:04pm.
Maybe just to clarify, because I think we are making two different points. My post was not a defense of the NDA or the App Store. As developer I hate both, I wish I could just put my apps on my website for download. I’ve had an app waiting a LONG time. And NDAs, while annoying, are relatively common. When I work on custom projects for my clients (compared to the products we sell) I’m always under an NDA. They are not an excuse for sloppy code (though, I definitely agree that a release would help programmers). And I don’t think end users should have to care about technical stuff, that was to illustrate the problems with the media talking about stuff it has no business talking about. If you (media) are complaining about a 3rd party apps crashing (and you aren’t blaming the 3rd party apps themselves) you can’t also complain about the existence of the App Store; because those are contradictory complaints (also I can’t get into this without getting myself into trouble, but trust me Apple isn’t “vouching” for the apps that get into the App Store). Further, if MacWorld writes an article that says how horrible it is that there isn’t background apps; their readers don’t need to know about objects and autorelease pools, but they should. Otherwise they are talking about something without all (or even some) of the facts. (Which is exactly what they did). And unfortunately these people (despite being incredibly stupid) seem to have an effect on Apple. And that’s the core of my problem, they have power without responsibility. In fact they complain about the relatively obvious result of what they wanted. As I said in my post, there are some real issues with 2.0. And some of Apple’s Apps have some issues themselves. But I can tell you, with relative level of certainty, that the vast majority of the crashes people are talking about are coming from the bad behavior of 3rd party apps themselves. » POSTED IN:
This thread was greatSubmitted by CuriousG on July 23, 2008 - 10:36pm.
I’m one of those non-tech people who relies on places like Macworld for my news. Please redirect me to somewhere better if there is such place. So it was great to hear some of the details behind this so I have a better idea of what some of the constraints are that Apple is working with. Again, I come back to understanding a bit why Jobs was very reluctant to have 3rd party apps to begin with. I love the added functionality, but the reduction in stability sounds like a somewhat inevitable partner. The glitches definitely make the iPhone in some ways feel a bit less magical. » POSTED IN:
Mac NewsSubmitted by AquaMethod on July 24, 2008 - 7:22pm.
I don't think Macworld is a poor publication by any means, and I'd keep reading it. :) But if you want more commentary and detailed analysis in addition to news, I'd suggest that you check out Daring Fireball, a mostly Apple-centric blog by John Gruber. He's a great writer, and cuts through a lot of BS fairly often. The coverage at Infinite Loop from Ars Technica is also very good. And if you're into podcasts, definitely check out MacBreak Weekly, a weekly audio show featuring Merlin and a bunch of other Mac nerds. » POSTED IN:
Re: Oh, Come on Guys!Submitted by AquaMethod on July 24, 2008 - 7:14pm.
THe NDA is definitely not an excuse for poor code, but I can’t help but feel that a lot of iPhone developers are privately toiling in parallel to solve problems and hammer things out. It’s a brand new platform, and everyone is learning about it as they go. Including Apple. What I think Merlin and David are saying is that, taken as a whole, the iPhone 2.0 experience is disappointing, especially to new users. I agree that it’s not all Apple’s fault, as perhaps it’s being portrayed in the media. And I can agree that if a publication is going to discuss app crashing or the lack of background apps, then yes, it is a fallacy to ignore the reasons why that may be. The mis- or concealed information in the media is frustrating, but that’s always happened. Look at Microsoft—it’s suffered from so much bad press over Vista that it’s beginning to believe it! I don’t think Apple will get that kind of backlash. I’m not sure where you see the effect in Apple, however; although it’s been apologetic for the MobileMe problems, that’s a separate issue. I will admit that Steve Jobs’ initial announcement of third-party apps did seem a bit reluctant and forced, I think that they’re happy with the decision now. A lot of work went into Cocoa Touch and the SDK—they’re excited about the iPhone as a platform. » POSTED IN:
Any difference related to hardware?Submitted by dougguitar on July 23, 2008 - 6:31pm.
I’m assuming that the issues being described are related to running the 2.0 software on the original iPhone hardware. Can anyone say whether or not they are seeing the same issues on the iPhone 3G? It’s just a matter of time (and availability) before I buy one. Just curious… » POSTED IN:
iPhone glitchesSubmitted by bob hyatt on July 23, 2008 - 6:36pm.
Brand new iPhone 3g- absolutely glitchy. Dropped calls galore which I NEVER got with my other iPhone. System crashes and resets… and the worst problem, which no one else has mentioned- during phone calls, the sensor which should turn off the screen when you hold it up to your face has gotten turned around- when I hold the phone up, the screen turns on, and when I put it down (this only happens during/after a call) the screen actually turns on. If I hold it back up to my face, back on… if I want to avoid a 2 minute lag until the screen decides to come back on by itself, I have to hold the phone up to my face, look out of the corner of my eye and manage to find the end call button. If I can press it, I can have my screen back- if not… no display for you! Just ridonkulous… I really expect better from Apple » POSTED IN:
iTouch/iPhone glitchesSubmitted by thatdidnthurt on July 23, 2008 - 7:55pm.
It is like using a pretty version of Windows ME » POSTED IN:
Wouldn't go that farSubmitted by jeffwhitfield on July 24, 2008 - 7:10am.
I wouldn’t go so far as to say that the iPhone/iTouch 2.0 software is like Windows ME. Reason is that, unlike Windows ME, Apple will fix it. They’re banking on the success of this phone and are very serious about making sure that the users of these phones are happy. If you’re not happy about the performance then be patient. I honestly believe that future firmware updates will offer a dramatic improvement. In the meantime, yeah, it can crash here and there, plus some of the apps from the app store can make it hang up pretty good. I did have to do a full blown restore after my phone wouldn’t start after a crash. Your mileage may vary but, for me, most of the time it works and it works well. Yes, I’ve had problems but I’m patient, plus the alternative is worse in my opinion. I’ve used Treos before and, believe me, I’ll gladly take a iPhone running the semi-buggy 2.0 software than to have to put up with a Treo running Windows Mobile. You’ll have to pull my iPhone away from my cold, dead fingers before you can convince me to use one of those crap phones again. So, no, this isn’t Windows ME in the form of an iPhone. It’s just a sign that not everything went as smoothly as Apple would have liked. Besides, why does every buggy software release always have to be compared to Windows ME? Man…Microsoft sure laid down a gauntlet with that one! LOL! » POSTED IN:
Apps mysteriously reappearingSubmitted by rosano on July 23, 2008 - 10:00pm.
You probably just need to click “Dont transfer purchases” when prompted during a sync. Be careful not to do that if you have purchased anything though, because you might lose it. » POSTED IN:
Outlook calendar synch problems and Location Services nagsSubmitted by Bob_Crosley on July 24, 2008 - 7:30am.
I’ve had everything mentioned previously plus one more big one for me. I’ve used Outlook synching over USB since getting the phone to keep my calendar handy. Since ‘upgrading’ to 2.0, I can’t synch my calendar anymore. My company won’t support the ActiveSync, so I can’t go that route. Apple’s aware of it, but all of their suggested fixes don’t work, and the big one they suggest, I can’t use. (No Apple, I can’t create a new user on my laptop and a new Outlook account just to get my calendar back.) The iPhone is now useless to me as a calendar device since my schedule is hopelessly out of date. The other thing that’s driving me nuts is Location Services. I have a “classic” without GPS, but every time I switch to camera to take a quick picture, I have to dismiss the nag box asking if I want to let the camera use location services before I take the picture. If I turn location services off, I can’t use the cell tower triangulation to get my location in maps. Would it be too much to give me a settings pane allowing me to give LS access to certain apps? Or a dialog with 4 buttons, Allow, Deny, Always Allow, Always Deny? I’m going to do a full restore on it and see if it gives me the option to just use the original firmware until iPhone 2.0.1 comes out. » POSTED IN:
Slow backupSubmitted by scruffy on July 24, 2008 - 1:57pm.
good news: i was experiencing the extremely slow backup every time i sync’d my phone. after a restore the backup time was reduced dramatically so that it’s not really a problem for me anymore. maybe just deleting the backups and starting from scratch would help. bad news: since upgrading to 2.0 on my Original iPhone, i’ve experienced a lot of dropped calls and signal strength does not seem to be as good as before. more bad news: i’ve seen the phone restart while it was sleeping, and one time when i was receiving a call it just vibrated without the ringtone sounding (it wasn’t set to silent, the ringtone was one of the stock ones) and i couldn’t answer until the call had gone to voicemail—the phone was completely unresponsive. i think there is a lot of funk in the OS and maybe the apps are being unfairly blamed. more good news: on a positive note, i sync my phone on 2 different computers. i have a mini set up as a media center where all my music resides. my office mac has my podcasts. it used to be that syncing to the music computer would wipe the podcasts off the phone, but since 2.0 it leaves my podcasts alone. so it’s nice not having to re-sync podcasts on the office machine after syncing music. » POSTED IN:
Agree...and anotherSubmitted by kevinbehringer on July 24, 2008 - 1:09pm.
I agree, I’ve experienced most of these. The freezing while typing, the opening a webpage and having it just go back to the home screen, the failure to open an app or a crash. One thing that I had hoped they’d address with the 2.0 software that seems to have gotten worse for me is the podcast syncing with iTunes. Granted, I’m using Windows, but I have the continual problem of a podcast I’ve listened to on the phone not being seen as “listened to” in iTunes. Or, I’ll listen to it, turn off the phone, come back in and it’s marked as new again. That’s really annoying to have to manually mark them as played in iTunes in order for them to be taken off the phone, and even then they sometimes come back! I was told at the Apple store to just go in an mark them as played. Doesn’t seem like a very “Apple” thing to do. » POSTED IN:
Not meSubmitted by janotte on July 27, 2008 - 4:53am.
Just wanted to drop in a comment that none of the above problems have happened to me with my 3G 8Gb iPhone. It’d be good if those who say their iPhone is not meeting their expectations would tell us what version they have and capacity so there might be hint as to where the problems lie. Is it the 16Gb that are the bad bunch? for example. On the ‘I delete apps on my iPhone and iTunes reinstall them when I sync’ whine that keeps coming up. Since this is exactly the functionality that iTunes has always supplied with iPods why is anyone surprised? I am very, very happy that I have to take some serious effort to blow away my paid for apps. I definitely consider the current functionality to be a definite feature and highly desirable. Please pause before complaining about this any more and be absolutely sure you’d be happy if Apple did what you seem to be asking them as I would regret it and I think there’s a chance you might too. Peace out » POSTED IN:
ugh.Submitted by h4ck on July 27, 2008 - 7:39pm.
i hated 2.0 SO MUCH that i actually removed itunes 7.7, and downgraded (and “pwned”) to 1.1.4. once it was installed, i felt a huge relief. I actually started to not like my iphone. thankfully i have a 2g so 1.1.4 is an option. I’ll take a jailbroken 1.1.4 with the ability to actually customize it how i like, with cool applications, than apples pathetic 2.0 release, with the “socialnetworkingstore” (seriously - how many twitter clients does the world need?) - i’d go as far as to say this isn’t even beta.. its alpha. my appstore rant is something that doesn’t belong here necessarily, but its part of 2.0… its terrible. horrible. tons of 2-bit applications that feel like some kid/investor/businessman threw together with the hope of selling a million bucks worth.. nothing of substance. its like people are selling hello world apps for a buck. give me a break. everything on the already-existing (and better!) installer.app blows appstore out of the water. i can’t see myself bothering with 2.0 ever. » POSTED IN:
About Merlin MannBio Merlin Mann is an independent writer, speaker, and broadcaster. He’s best known for being the guy who started the website you’re reading right now. He lives in San Francisco, does lots of public speaking, and helps make cool things like You Look Nice Today. Also? He looks like this, answers questions, and has something like a life. |
|
| EXPLORE 43Folders | THE GOOD STUFF |